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Brahma (Brahmaputra or Gray Chittagongs)

An Asiatic breed thought to be developed from crosses of the Cochin and Malay. An incredibly excellent setty bantam with feathered legs and pea comb resulting in a great winter bird. The hens remind one of ladies in great feathery housecoats and fluffy slippers! They have an easy going temperament and are good brown egg layers.



Many people talk about Silkies being the best setty hens, while this may be so for some, in our experiences, the Brahma is an even better setty hen. Why, well we started out with both and we found the Silkies would set just as well as the Brahmas, but once Silkies hatched the chicks, ours being good exhibition Silkies, they could not see to raise their young nor could they see dangers to themselves and could be harmed if let outside. The Brahmas, on the other hand, can see and not only are better able to raise the chicks and protect them, they have a giving motherly temperament. We like to offer not only chick starter to new hatchlings, but hard boiled egg yolk. We have Brahma hen’s that hold this treat, making brisk mother hen noises to attract the chicks to eat.



Brahma hens want to be mothers so bad, they will go to great lengths to amass a clutch of eggs. I recall one morning, I had been doing chores in the Deuce Coop and noticed that once again, the floor egg was gone in the Buff Brahma pen. I knew where it was, again inside the hen’s nest, so I grabbed it from under Hannibal, who gave me a peck for my insolence of stealing one of HER eggs. I tossed the floor egg back out on the floor and for some reason, got tied up with doing a few more chores in the coop. I was just about to exit when I looked in the Brahma pen to see an amazing sight. There was Hannibal, out of her nest and standing over the plastic floor egg. She leaned over, scooped the egg up under her chin, turned, and carried the egg back into her nest. I could not believe it! Those Buffs sure are good setty hens…almost too good and here is the part about what I do not like about them. One has to watch and not let them set and raise chicks for too long as they will repeatedly lay, set and raise chick batches over and over and this can be hard on a hen as she puts a lot into raising her young and can lose condition.

We find the Brahma hen is a far superior setty mother...she not only sets tight, she is a devoted mother and careful chick caregiver.




http://albc-usa.org/cpl/brahma.html

Brahma Chicken

Often referred to as the “King of All Poultry”, the Brahma chicken is appreciated for its great size, strength, and vigor. By 1901 some individual birds were documented to have reached the incredible weights of 13-14 pounds for hens and 17 to 18.25 pounds for cocks – though 10 pound hens and 12 pounds cocks were the rule. This breed, together with the Cochin, fueled what became known as “Hen Fever” – a national obsession for poultry that hit both America and England around 1850.

Brahmas are large chickens with feathers on shanks and toes, pea comb, smooth fitting plumage with dense down in all sections, and broad, wide head with skull projecting over the eyes – termed “beetle brow.” They come in three color varieties – the Light, the Dark, and the Buff. Both the Light and the Dark Brahma were accepted to the American Standard of Perfection in its first printing in 1874. Though from the beginning some buff specimens were produced periodically, it was not until 1924 that the Buff Brahma was accepted as standardized as well.

Few breeds have as much controversy as to their origins as does the Brahma chicken. While many varied claims were originally accepted as fact by early authors, the truth of the matter is that this breed was developed in America from very large fowls imported from China via the port of Shanghai. It also seems clear that Chittigong fowls from India (now Bangladesh) were used to a very small degree and stamped head and comb characteristics onto the breed – differentiating it from the Shanghai breed (now known as the Cochin). In those early days it should be remembered there were no written standards, no poultry associations, and no registries. Since what became known as the Brahma chicken was being presented under at least twelve names, there was much confusion. The credit for shortening the name to Brahma goes to T.B. Miner, publisher of The Northern Farmer, who in 1853 or 1854 did so for very practical reasons – saving space on the printed page!

In December 1852, to promote his stock, Mr. George Burnham shipped nine of his finest as a gift to H.M.G. Majesty Queen Victoria of England – making sure the gift was much publicized. Prices jumped from $12-15 per pair to $100-150. Burnham’s stock proved of quality and formed the basis for the Dark Brahma variety – which was developed in England and later shipped back to America. Dark Brahmas tended to be about one pound lighter in weight than the Light Brahma.

From the beginning Brahmas have been recognized not only for their unusual appearance and size, but also for their practical qualities. First and foremost Brahmas are found to be extremely hardy chickens. They are also good egg-layers for their size. Considered a superior winter-layer, they produce the bulk of their eggs from October to May. The eggs of the Brahma are large and uniformly medium brown in color. The hens tend to go broody in early summer and will sit devotedly on their nests. But because of the size of the hen, trampling of the chicks must be guarded against for the first few days after hatch.

The Brahma was generally considered the leading meat breed for the period of time from the mid-1850’s through about 1930 – some 70 plus years. As broilers, Brahma chicks were killed quite young, about 8-10 weeks of age. They made a most profitable roaster at 8 months, later than many breeds, but it was found that virgin cockerels were still tender as roasters at 12-13 months – making them competitive against capons. As a family fowl they were unequaled, and a large Brahma could feed a moderate-sized family.

Brahmas thrive best on dry, well-drained soils and moist, cool climates. The feathering of their shanks and toes is a negative where the ground is damp and muddy – the mud clinging to the feathers and frostbite then being possible for their toes. The breed is easy to contain, not being able to fly low fences very easily. They also stand confinement extremely well – having calm and docile personalities. Like the Cochins, Brahmas are not wide ranging fowl or as active in scratching as the Mediterranean breeds. The Brahma is an ideal fowl for northern climates. It was popularly known as the least susceptible chicken to cold and exposure – owing this strength to its pea comb and tight feathering with down through all sections. It is not an ideal fowl for southern climates.

Based on eb brown, the down of the Brahma is slate grey...here are two Brahma Bantam cockerels with smooshed feathers over so you can see the grey down underneath.

Lloyd’s Penny Poultry Book
All About the Management of Fowls, Ducks, Geese and Turkeys, for Profit
Lloyd’s Weekly News
12, Salisbury Square, London E.C.
1915

Brahmas. - Notwithstanding the many new breeds of fowl that have been brought during the last few years, Brahmas, both dark and light, still have a large number of admirers. Among their good qualities are great size, a strong constitution, fine character of flesh, great winter laying powers, and a faculty of adapting themselves to small runs or free range with equal facility. They are, too, such handsome birds that they are an ornament to any poultry yard.

In breeding Brahmas, size is of great importance. A male bird should weigh 12-lb. or upwards, and a hen not less than 9-lb. A large coarse head in a Brahma is a disqualification. With Light Brahmas one of the chief difficulties is to obtain the pure white colour free from any yellow tinge; also to obtain enough black markings in the hackle without too much colour in the wrong place. Brahmas lay fair sized deep brown eggs. They are apt to become frequently broody in the summer, though not so often as Cochins. Brahmas transmit their utility qualities when crossed with other breeds, notably with the Dorking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma_(chicken)


Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

I have had several types of birds but loved my Brahmas best. I will not claim they are the best layers, they are not. But I think they are pleasant and beautiful and that is a large part of what my birds are for, to make me smile and be beautiful.

My ultimate favorite chicken of ALL time ever...is the Dark Brahma crossed with an Australorp. I LOVE those hens!

Sadly, right now, all out of Brahmas at my place. Love your pics, Higgins!

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uno wrote:I have had several types of birds but loved my Brahmas best. I will not claim they are the best layers, they are not. But I think they are pleasant and beautiful and that is a large part of what my birds are for, to make me smile and be beautiful.

My ultimate favorite chicken of ALL time ever...is the Dark Brahma crossed with an Australorp. I LOVE those hens!

Sadly, right now, all out of Brahmas at my place. Love your pics, Higgins!

Thank you Uno.

There are many who truly love the Brahma, best of all birds. The American Brahma Club is "Dedicated to promoting the Majestic Ones!" I share my love, like one has to between their children...hee hee...only had one kid, so maybe some days, I don't have to be SO good at loving ALL equally...shhhh, don't tell the chickens before I get to the next coop!! LOL

Personally, I am getting confused over the messages I am reading...I see some say the Brahma lays very well, above they mention:

Considered a superior winter-layer, they produce the bulk of their eggs from October to May

Yet in my Brahma Handbook...

John Freeman, February 17th, 1985:

I do not advocate anybody buying them with the idea of having heavy layers. They just aren't. They're excellent layers from the 1st of February to, say, the 1st of October. In between they're perfectly decent. I think it can be done with lights, but I doubt if it can. I think it would be more sensible to keep a supplementary breed if eggs are a must on a year-round basis. Their temperament's fine, their health, disease resistance and everything is excellent.

So right here...we have the two quotes cancel each other out...agh!

On personal experiences, I find the Brahmas as productive egg and meat wise the same as my other bantams, the Wyandottes and the Booteds (the Booteds ARE not meat birds). When I collect eggs, all produce at the same time and in really cold lower than minus twenty in the Duece Coop, all of the bantams shut down and good for them...the eggs split anyhow!! Right now, it is much warmer and all the bantams are laying eggs...so I cannot say I agree with Freeman that the Brahma is any less a winter egg producer than my other bantams. I will make a mental note on your experience of them not being the best layers, but presume yours were the large fowl or standard Brahmas and maybe, just maybe, I need to note that part too.

Brahmas as egg layers, OK tighter here, as WINTER egg layers...ALBC Yes, John Freeman No, Uno "not claim they are the best layers" and then me, as layers same as Wyandotte and Booted Bantams (but not same as my Chanteclers) so as a DUAL purpose bantam, I give them the thumbs up as good egg layers, fine in winter, not exceedingly exceptional tho...

Anyone else with Brahmas want to post a comment on them as egg layers, as winter layers also. Be interesting to see.

Thanks,

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

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One of the bonuses for joining the American Brahma Club, is way back, you got a copy of the club's Handbook from 1988.

Here are just a few quotes from this exceptional reference book.

Some General Thoughts By Charles Simmonds (aged 95 years at the time)

...

You will find it an advantage to give each mating some time on the grass each day. But some of the finest Bantams in the world have been produced by fanciers who have worked away all day and only let each mating have a few minutes run on the grass in the evening.

To me, time out on the grassy lawns is SO important...it allows your birds happy natural time and it gives them something to look forward to each day. Pending the weather conditions permit (one needs to be caretaker of your land first...animals and birds care nothing about destroying a well kept but dewey lawn!) and you have predator prevention in place, time outside is great to make wattles and combs brilliant red, time for exercise, to chase bugs and nip grass, and to allow them time to soak up sun or even sleep in the shade (if there is enough time for all this FUN) and if you are a duck duck/goose or swan...paddle on the ponds time.


This is for CynthiaM....the diamonds I oft speak of.

The Light Brahma - Diamond Saddle By Maurice Wallace of Iroquois, ON

Mr. Jonh M. Freeman has asked me for an article on the best breeding methods to obtain the "terrific" diamond pattern for which he implies my strain of Light Brahmas was noted. I do wish so much that I could lay down a simple formula for the guidance or help of those good Light Brahma fanciers who so well deserve it. There is so very little I can tell that is really positive! I will, however, try to convey an idea of my broad, nebulous approach which may spur the good breeder of the day to the establishment of more dependable devices. From the tone of the American Brahma Club literature and their discussion of the live birds it looks at though their promoters had launched the breed into one of the most resourceful and important periods in their history.

Mr. Freeman has written in the A.B.C. bulletin that the average rearing of Brahmas today by the fancier is about 25 chickens. That agrees with my observations. Well, in the period that I made the most headway with the diamond saddle I was growing from 700 birds upwards to a high of 1200. This was part of a general farm operation with the advantage of full range. My Brahmas numbered I suppose form 200 to 350. Among that many birds are found occasional delightful surprises.

From that basis it is hard to be helpful to those growing 25 birds but the principle of selection is in there just the same and the basis of today is more sound than it was then. Besides the show birds and breeders I sold alsv groups of Brahma males for fattening, and some to the killing station, at a small profit. I sold females in groups of 4 and 8, sometimes more and shipped low-priced birds great distances. It all meant work but it game me that great advantage of selection as visualized by John Freeman.

I never had any device in any of my varieties that I withheld form other fanciers. This being a short article I will come to one important point as quickly as I can; say we have a line across the middle of our Light Brahma page. Above that line the birds are way too dark. that is to say they have too much black. Below that lien the birds are too light, not way too light just too light.

I bred my birds across that line to get my strain established with a sufficient percentage of birds to fill my Light Brahma matings. These birds carried sufficient stimulation of the diamond striping that I felt that thereafter dependable improvement was likely to come through selecting and mating the best from year to year. Those matings were all headed by males from the dark side of the line showing the nearest to desired pattern. The way the black and white occurred in relation to each other gave indication of what might hopefully be expected in their offspring. There had to be less black and more white to meet the Standard proportions. Although attended by some stubborn disappointments the general trend of color occurence was as hoped for.

There is another point that even in an article of this length I should not neglect. In this diamond saddle endeavor I started from a good sound basis of black and white. As sharply as I could produce it the white and black met where they were supposed to meet. There was no place for gray. That kind of marking made of black fading out into gray had been subjected to years of elimination in all my Light Brahmas.

Exception is made, of course, for undercolor. As a breeding asset I favored the darker undercolor so long as the web was clean - all the way in female and across the break in male saddle web.

This article deals with the method of creating the unrefined diamond pattern method or experiment as it might have been. As the diamonds took form I gave preference to the plumage that was the most advanced toward perfection. But always I maintained that heavy supply of black pigment in the overall systems of the breeders. Selection of the best pattern and generous maintenance of black pigment constitute the preferred Standard strategy of the day.

Note, note, note...it is my experience thus far...that the males (chickens AND ducks AND geese) will be whiter or have less black than an impossible but identical female (like the difference between a brother and sister bird...the boys are whiter, the girls are darker). Wallace may not have been able to relay this in a genetic sense to us, but by him saying, "Those matings were all headed by males from the dark side of the line showing the nearest to desired pattern" we can clearly see, he KNEW the male would be darker to its counterpart female...take heed of his wise words of guidance; select for the best pattern and sharp contrast of the white and black, NO GREY!!

Listen to Dr. Carefoot and hatch lots of chickens so you can make selections from a large as possible number...it is much easier to find perfection in 100 or 300 birds than to grasp at finding anything to keep and go forward from in a batch of 25 birds! Sheer numbers increase YOUR success rate.

So what is all the FUSS about a seemingly simple but pretty pattern like the Light Columbian (eb/eb OR eWh/eWh, S/S, Co/Co but Brahmas are eb/eb; called Light in Sussex or Brahmas, Ermine in Faverolles and Columbian in Wyandottes and Plymouth Rocks)....let us let Sigrid/David tell us, shall we...

- Genetics of Chicken Colours, By Sigrid Van Dort & David Hancox. Copyright 2009, ISBN 978 90 6674 404 2, page 184:

"The perfect Columbian is the result of a 100 years of selection."

I also have poems...oh yes, John Miller Freeman was a poet of the beloved Brahmas...

- John Miller Freeman, May 1971

We line our Brahmas in a row
The Judge, a lowly variet
Examined them from tip to toe
His name was Kenneth Scarlett

I showed a cock that could not lose,
My pride and my delight -
The one the judge would have to chose,
(Though showing gray in flight!)

Alas! With Kenneth's eagle eye
I had not duly reckoned,
He found the gray, I heaved a sigh,
He placed my winner second.

Oh Kenneth, this I must admit,
I'd do the same for you.
I hope my manly tears will fit
In the forthcoming stew!

{Kenneth Scarlett was President of the American Brahma Club}

Here follows some wise words of Kenneth's:

One thought has crossed my mind that might be of interest to newer Brahma fanciers. That is the side effects that can be derived from being a part of the poultry fancy. Collecting of old poultry books and breed articles would enable you to research the breed and better understand your goals in regard to showing a better Brahma. A poultry library also is invaluable when tracking down a disease or an incubation problem. Another side effect is the social contacts that you make while at shows. Birds of a feather flock together and never more true than in the Brahma alley at any show. My truest and most devoted friends were made over the years at poultry shows. Not to be discounted is the fraternal and beneficial effects of belonging to a breed club such as ours. The Brahma club has members in 42 of 50 states with directors in each district to serve you. There are other side effects, such as poultry and eggs for the table, manure for the garden. Interest for the very young and a breeding challenge for the more mature. I don't know of any hobby that varies more or offers more than that of raising Brahmas.

On this, I shall close for now....

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

Yes, mine were the standard birds.

I found them to be pretty dependable layers all year round, just not prolific layers, like an ISA Brown, but it's not really fair to compare the two. It's like comparing a dependable old farm truck with a race car.

I found that crossing the Brahma added great bulk to the mature size of the bird and am puzzled why the Brahma is not more widely used for crossing with a dual purpose bird in mind. True, the standard Brahma seems to have quite a long maturity time, but most dual purpose birds DO take a lot longer to get to butcher size. Some of Brahma x Aussie hens must have been close to 8 pounds by the time they were a year, they were BIG birds and the roos were even bigger!

On another site there was a fellow in Austria who raised Dark Brahmas and they were unlike anything I have ever seen in this country! They were HUGE! ANd beautiful. Made hatchery stock look like weaklings. But I don't know how hatching eggs would survive being shipped from Austria! I am a fan of the Brahma.

Uno, I am with you, some of the Brahmas in Standard size from overseas are HUGE. I used to see pictures of some, I think they may have been in Austria, that were massive birds. They had a real open hock angle to their legs which made them look really long, profuse leg feathering and then they had that amazing heavy brow they looked like they were frowning all the time. Very cool, prehistoric looking birds.
I would love to see some of your Brahma x Aussies. I bet they were really cool birds!
I have wanted to get a couple of standard darks just for my laying pen as I think they are very cool birds.
Thanks for all the info about them.

Hi Are you talking about full sized birds or bantams being good setters? Buff brahmas are on my wish list lolol
Geri

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uno wrote:Yes, mine were the standard birds.

Mine are bantams, there will be differences we can count on that! LOL

uno wrote:I found them to be pretty dependable layers all year round, just not prolific layers, like an ISA Brown, but it's not really fair to compare the two. It's like comparing a dependable old farm truck with a race car.

I agree, the heritage dually is just that, we get a good supply of nice tasty eggs, then if we like, we have a decent carcass we can harvest. I know from personal experience the Brahma breed is slow to develop. I see no issues with that as I figure that time to get big is equal to length of life...the Brahma is gonna be long lived AND productive. Not all chick a licks need to die at 48 days to be of value. I think in terms of the birds I got from Murray, I could count on the Brahmas to LIVE a nice long life and supply me with the ability to make more and more, years and years down the line. Slow to develop, yes please...bring it on! I do admit that in the second year, male or female, you can see a difference, it is easy to see the difference, even in the egg sizes too...pullet eggs are indeed smaller than the hen eggs, oh but those hen eggs are brutes for a bantam!

uno wrote:I found that crossing the Brahma added great bulk to the mature size of the bird and am puzzled why the Brahma is not more widely used for crossing with a dual purpose bird in mind. True, the standard Brahma seems to have quite a long maturity time, but most dual purpose birds DO take a lot longer to get to butcher size. Some of Brahma x Aussie hens must have been close to 8 pounds by the time they were a year, they were BIG birds and the roos were even bigger!

Hmm, can't really say much about the crossing ability of the breed other than what I typed out, Lloyd’s Penny Poultry Book, 1915: "Brahmas transmit their utility qualities when crossed with other breeds, notably with the Dorking."

Any time we cross breeds, we would hope to get some hybrid vigor expressed. AA Australorp breed x BB Brahma breed = offspring, progeny that are all AB (100% AB). For me, I would far rather cross varieties within a breed. I took the Buff and Partridge, crossed to make the Red Chants. From that, yes, the cockerels weighed nine pounds in the fall, but this hybrid vigour thing...fine and dandy for a terminal cross, but after crossing and getting the simplistic results of an AB offspring...you go on breeding from the F1's, AB x AB = 25% AA, 50% AB, 25% BB...now you are down to the half way mark, only 50% are now AB...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis

The physiological vigor of an organism as manifested in its rapidity of growth, its height and general robustness, is positively correlated with the degree of dissimilarity in the gametes by whose union the organism was formed … The more numerous the differences between the uniting gametes — at least within certain limits — the greater on the whole is the amount of stimulation

I personally DO NOT want to rely on hybrid vigour for things like a nice sized bird...for good production of nice eggs...stuff like this should be ingrained in the PURE birds...not a spike in the strain...I want good eggs, good weights, good temperaments, good disease resistance, vigour (yes, natural occurring selection for vigorous birds, not HYBRID vigour, a flash in the pan!!), good doers, easy keepers, etc.

I met Dr. Cathy Gallivan when I worked for Alberta Agriculture...she began the Suffolk sire reference program and produces a well known sheep publication, Sheep Canada. Cathy is a graduate of the Nova Scotia Agricultural College and Macdonald College of McGill University (BSc 1978), and also of Oregon State University (MSc 1985) and the University of Guelph (PhD 1996).

Dr. Cathy Gallivan, "What is Linebreeding, Anyway?" August 1998, The GoatKeeper:

Purebred breeders may feel that it is their duty to inbreed and cull the poor performers in their herds. This would result in the selected inbred animals being homozygous for the good genes. These animals would be prepotent or "breed true" and pass on their good characteristics to their offspring in a predictable manner. These highly inbred lines, when outcrossed to unrelated animals, should produce exceptional offspring due to the higher than average level of heterosis or hybrid vigour that results when two highly inbred lines are crossed. This strategy has worked very successfully for breeders of both corn and poultry.

What must be remembered, however, it that the small number of offspring most farm animals can produce in a year hardly compares to the reproductive rate of either corn or poultry. Since inbreeding has its largest effect on reproductive performance, after a few generations of inbreeding, there are just not enough offspring from which to select replacements. The breeder will have to keep all his female offspring just to maintain his herd size. No selection results in no genetic improvement.

Here is another viewpoint...lots to digest here...here here.

Dr. Carefoot, page 188:

ADVANTAGES OF INBREEDING
If the reader still has any doubts about the advantages of inbreeding within a closed flock, a thorough knowledge of the principles of linkage should dispel them. By skillful selection, the eliminations of unwanted tendencies has resulted in highly inbred strains which have been more healthy than a completely random flock of crossbreds. Selection for disease resistance in some flocks has been highly successful, as has selection for high hatchability, quick growth, high food conversion, etc. However, where some breeders have ignored certain points during their selection processes, their strains have become vulnerable to various diseases, are temperamentally unsuitable for exhibition and suffer from poor hatchability had a low degree of fertility. Indeed whilst the statement may appear either contradictory or amusing, "sterility is hereditary"; and if a highly sterile line is developed it is far from funny for the breeder.

As a person wanting self-sufficiency I want my breedings to make good birds without resorting to outcrosses; just a good solid line of purebred heritage birds. If I need an artificial spike, I can always resort to crossing varieties within the breed.

Basically, sit back, if we take a Booted and cross it on a Wyandotte, what do we have? It is difficult enough in some aspects to get respect for PUREBRED chickens, ones that can be labeled heritage...

I am fine, go ahead and cross breeds if you want terminal crosses...if you want an Aussie/Brahma, go for it. To me I would see this as a challenge to get either breed up to the place that these F1 hybrids are at. That is my avenue now...with my Chanteclers. I got the benchmark on hybrid vigour, nine pound cockerels...well now I am working it for this HV without crossing varieties. Gertie, 6.5 pounds, Dana, 5 pounds...these are in pure Partridge...pullets...so now I see promise in the girls from maybe the promise I saw in 2010 in the F1 Reds. Since many of us base our strains on the females...I am delighted to see Gert and Dana as big baroogahs.

uno wrote:On another site there was a fellow in Austria who raised Dark Brahmas and they were unlike anything I have ever seen in this country! They were HUGE! ANd beautiful. Made hatchery stock look like weaklings. But I don't know how hatching eggs would survive being shipped from Austria! I am a fan of the Brahma.

Oh my, the day that we received the one Alberta hatchery catalogue that featured on the front cover a "supposed" Brahma hen...Rick wondered if I had gone completely insane...I laughed, I stopped and laughed, then laughed some more...from the mailbox to the door step...I laughed. I still laugh when I pull out a copy of that catalogue. Yes, bad on me to laugh but laugh I did. That is NOT a Dark Brahma...NOT!! Not even close, not in shape (breed) and not in variety (colour pattern).

We cannot expect a hatchery to compete with breeders that dedicate decades into their chosen breeds. It is the attention to details, the doting devotion, the focus that makes all the difference in the end products. Ah, the love...

Rasilon wrote:Hi Are you talking about full sized birds or bantams being good setters? Buff brahmas are on my wish list lolol
Geri

I am talking about bantam Brahmas, Hannibal is a bantam Buff...others with standards/large fowl are more than welcome to comment on their mothering abilities. I love my bantams.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

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We looked at getting the large fowl Brahmas, Rick said he could potentially SEE them from his chair inside the house but decided big chickens require big space and make big poops...LOL So we decided to go with the bantam size in the Brahmas. I am sure glad we did. Up until the spring of 2007, we never owned an incubator and the birds had to make more of themselves by natural hatching. WOW, the Buff Brahmas sure can do that. Darks & Lights will too, but the Buffs are exceptional, as I say above, in our opinions even better than Silkies...simply because both will set tight and hatch chicks but the Brahmas actually raise the chicks so much better than most other breeds. Nothing is more mothering than a Buff Brahma bantam. I will take bantam Buff Brahmas any day for setting hens and great mothers.

So I wanted to see the actual SIZE of the bantam Brahma eggs...the oldest of our bantam Brahma hens in the breeding pen in the Duece Coop is the four three year olds. Regal fully grown out and predictable stable hens. I have been getting four eggs a day now for a week straight from them. We do not use lights to incite laying in winter and this year, it has been a warm enough winter, the only heat lamp I had on in the fall was for the bantam Chantecler project chicks,,,they are now well grown (Sept hatch) so the heat lamp has been off since last year. I don't want people thinking we unnaturally PUSH the birds.



The largest egg is 50 grams, so a good solid MEDIUM sized egg...not bad for a bantam chicken! Not bad at all, my buffer girls!

I am going to have to see how these Buff Brahma eggs compare to the other bantams, the Booted, Wyandottes and Dark & Light Brahmas.

Brahmas are reknown for taking two years to reach maturity and I could always tell the pullet eggs from the hen eggs, Brahma hens lay bigger eggs!

I guess I need to rephrase the egg laying qualities of the bantam Buff Brahmas, not in the class of ISA Browns for as intensive but hey...I am sure there are three year old Isas out there still laying but you gotta wonder, are they laying as well as these heritage girls...hmmm??? If quality takes time...hmmm???

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

coopslave wrote:Uno, I am with you, some of the Brahmas in Standard size from overseas are HUGE. I used to see pictures of some, I think they may have been in Austria, that were massive birds. They had a real open hock angle to their legs which made them look really long, profuse leg feathering and then they had that amazing heavy brow they looked like they were frowning all the time. Very cool, prehistoric looking birds.
I would love to see some of your Brahma x Aussies. I bet they were really cool birds!
I have wanted to get a couple of standard darks just for my laying pen as I think they are very cool birds.
Thanks for all the info about them.

Heel low:

I just went looking and found what I recalled reading...I believe the only other standard breed bigger than Brahmas is the Jersey Giants...


In the early 1940's, Charles W. Gerstenberg, in his article Why Light Brahmas?, says,

5. They're an eyeful in size. I've had them tip the scale at 14 1/2 pounds. Rajah, who was the Grand Champion of the 1941 New York Show, is a smallish prince, but at six months two of his sons had gone over 10 pounds. (Remember, size and form come from the females, color from the males). Harvey Wood, one of the foremost breeders, told a writer for "Country Gentleman," twenty five years ago, that he knew a Light Brahma cock that had weighed well over 17 pounds.

...

8. They do have some utility value. Harvey Wood's slogan was "They win, weigh, lay, pay." At the New Jersey egg laying contest, the January, 1941 blue ribbon went to a Brahma lady on points -quality and weight of eggs laid during the month. Whenever the family has had a real cook in the kitchen we have had succulent 12-pounders on the table even if their age had gone beyond two years.

9. They are challenging. In some part of some feathers - and there are thousands to be grown and annually molted - color is required, but in other parts and completely in other feathers, color is taboo. A bird may seem perfect, a veritable dream bird; pick it up and spread the wing, lift up it's feathers: it may not seem so good. Hatch 100; twenty may be of show quality; only three or four probably will be really outstanding.

SEVENTEEN POUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me that is an average sized heritage turkey hen...not a chicken...GACK!! Feel the earth move under those chicken toes!

Ah but we also must note...25 years from the 1940's...that's 1915...how many have kept the lines of the large fowl Brahmas of that era going strong. Someone mentioned Bernie...I believe due to failing health, he no longer keeps the large fowl Lights (or any birds at all...he had come back from seeing a German poultry show the last time we talked)...his Brahmas mighta been of the large sort...dunno, will have to ask him the next time I see him.

I don't like that open leg look I have seen in some of those European large fowl Brahmas. The first ones I saw were in Sigrid and David's Chicken Colour book and I had to look twice to figure out what they were. LOL

Ah...here we go again but I feel Schilling's Light Brahma Bantam trio in the 1952, his work for the Light in both genders of large fowl, and the 1929 work for the Dark Brahma large fowl (male and then the female) are showing perfection for the breed. None of his works show this length of leg and I figure Brahmas should be Brick, Block feeling solid, not giving one the impression of tall and lanky...my interpretation of the breed. I want Brahmas to give the overall impression of massiveness, whether bantam or large fowl. I am more for a cobby look.

I do like a massive and broad skull in the Brahma bantams. The heavy brow is part of that, but it does take some getting use to, the stern look, sorta got me ready for the Chantecler heavy browish sorta mean until it gets silly cause you just tossed her some corn, kinda look. The massive skull I like, more intelligent due to more space for a brain, albeit a bird brain. The massive skull, that was one thing Reg Hughes said about his bantams when he sent us his breeding Buff bantams when he retired. He had judges mistake his pullets and cockerels for hens and cocks in the shows based on the width of skull, Reg said he liked to be able to place a thumb width on either side of the peacomb.

Alot of the exhibition lines of Brahmas here in North America do not have has profuse feather footing...the issue there is the disqualification for Vulture Hocks in the breed, and often (though not always!) the profuse foot feathering was in conjunction with the VH...better a bird is not DQ'd and has a bit less in the foot feathering. I have been told that showing Brahmas in the UK, they are not as strict on the VH, not sure how that applies in Europe tho.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

Heel low:

Found myself typing out Bantam weights and thought, post this here too...might help others. How's that for multi-tasking...LOL

Brahmas rank way up there in size...big birds whether bantam (almost 2.5 pounds in roosters) or standard/large fowl (as we see in my above post, 17 pounds one fellow had in the Standards, 12 to 14 was more the norm but years ago now).


LARGE FOWL (bantams are the same weights in APA as ABA, so see below)
Standard Weights - APA SOP 2010:

Brahma
Cock - 12 pounds / Hen - 9.5 pounds / Cockerel 10 pounds / Pullet 8 pounds

I believe the only Large Fowl bigger...Jersey Giants

Jersey Giants
Cock - 13 pounds / Hen - 10 pounds / Cockerel 11 pounds / Pullet 8 pounds


BANTAM FOWL
The only bantams LARGER than the Brahmas according to the ABantamA SOP...are Malay, Shamo (both these I suspect are more weight in BONE structure than meat) Orpington (two ounces larger than Brahma, so not bigger by much), and Cornish (totally meant for meat production!).

American Bantam Association - SOP 2005

Standard weights in ounces

Cock - Hen - Cockerel - Pullet

Brahma 38-34-34-30

Wyandotte 30-26-26-24

Chantecler 34-30-30-28

Booted 26-22-22-20 (NOT meat, but good sized eggs for their small size)


Other breeds kept for meat (but not mine):

Buckeye 34-32-32-28
Delware 34-30-30-26
RIR 34-30-30-26


Breeds bigger than Brahma:

Cornish 44-36-40-32

Orpington 40-36-36-32

Malay 44-36-40-32

Shamo 44-36-40-32

If your objective is to grow out the cockerels for a nice little two to three person meal (like a Cornish game) and want large sized and plentiful heritage chicken egg production (even in winter), the Brahma is the breed to go for. They are plump, wide structured and very tasty...nice covering of lard, ahem, fat if you let them grow out too long...hee hee...this widdle fat layer and ample insulating feathers coverage allows them to be the most consistent winter layer of my bantam flocks (well OK, the first of my Chantecler bantam project pullets gave me a medium sized egg as her first egg on Valentines Day. September hatched, so what...laying at 4.5 to 5 months! Kewl!).

Love my bantam Brahmas...luv dem!!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

I love my Standard Dark Brahma's
wish I had more but there are no breeders in Sask with them unless i get hatchery stock

Heel low:

Some exceptional examples of the progression of how the interpretations of poultry breeds change over time.






How do the 1880 Brahmas compare to the artist's rendition in the 2010 APA SOP??

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Wishard Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Dilute Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

Heel low:

Okey Dokey...harvested some old photos off my old computer AND scanned some old photographs on Rick's scanner that I learned how to use...hee hee.

These are some of the Buff Bantam Brahmas that we started with. Reg's Brahmas have "amplified features" (but cautious foot feathering! No worries of "Vulture Hock" DQ's in these) and Murray's Brahmas have great markings and an old time shape.

Murray's hen with the contrast (ebony black on the buff) he sent us.



Reg Hughes' Rooster and hen (in the pail nest) and some of our pullets.



Hannibal and some of the Booted chicks she hatched.



We separated Hannibal from the rest of the Buff Brahma flock so she could go about setting and then raising her chicks. I have a heat lamp over the family just in case the new hatchlings decide to venture outside the pail nest and get chilled. We use a 48" high dog exercise pen with fine mesh plastic fencing to contain them. A couple of clips secures the pen to the sides of one of the Duece Coop pens and she has her own private nursery YET still is with her Brahma flock where they can see and hear each other. When the chicks are old enough, we just remove the pen and Hannibal and youngsters (not this batch of Booteds...but when she set on Brahma chicks!) join the rest of the members of the pen.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.